Dave and I stumbled upon this area 17 years ago. It is near the Arc De Triumph. We saw so many businesses with Ternes in the name. We went from one to another asking how they got that name. We heard – from the street – well how did the street get that name – from the place aka square – well how did Place Des Ternes get that name – maybe from the balloon – What?
So here is the story as best we can understand it now. The story is that in the Middle Ages the Bishop of Paris had a farm outside the city called Villa Externa. It was eventually called Estern and then Ternes. The girls tell me Des Ternes is plural. Later a poet and servant of Henry III bought the house to turn it into a castle/chateau. In 1860 the area became part of Paris. The Avenue runs from the edge of the city Porte(City Gate) Des Ternes to the Place (Square) Des Ternes.
When we were there 17 years ago – with baby Rachel- we saw many more businesses named after the street than we did this time. Now there are more chain stores.
Dave’s Ternes ancestors were Germans from the Alsace Lorraine area which was sometimes France and sometimes Germany and who lived in Russia for a few generations at the invitation of Catherine the Great of Russia. She allowed the Germans to keep their language, religion, culture and exempted them from Russian military service. They lived together in German communities in Russia. (Expats) Many immigrated together to Canada and the US, especially during the Russian Revolution. The Germans from Russia have a strong genealogical society and museums and are active in documenting and sharing their heritage.
So, was there a “French Connection”? Dave and family look much more French than German to me. Did some people adopt the name Ternes from the village near Paris and then go on to live in Alsace Loraine? We’ve seen on the internet various Terneses inquiring about the possible connection with the Ternes place names in France. (There is also a Ternes Castle in Cantal area of France. We want to go see that next time. There is a book about it in French.) We also hear that there has been genealogical research along with DNA testing purported to show that the Terneses were actually from chieftains of Ireland and after that may have gone to France and Germany. Ancestry. Com says “Ternes Name Meaning and History German: from a short form of the personal name Maternus, from Latin, ‘the maternal (i.e. motherly) one’. Compare Mattern.” So we can’t prove any connection with the place names in France but it is cool to see the name everywhere – the street, the shops, the square, the metro station. All we know for sure is the Germans from Russia connection.
Oh yeah – the Baloon Des Ternes aka MONUMENT DES AERONAUTES DU SIEGE. In WWI France used hot air balloons to help communication and defense during the siege on Paris. To commemorate that, Bartholdi – the French sculptor who designed the Statue of Liberty, – designed a hot air balloon sculpture and it was placed in the Place De Porte Des Ternes and commonly called the Baloon Des Ternes. (We searched for quite a while to find the guy the balloon was named after before finding out it was named for the place). Don’t go looking for the balloon sculpture now. It was melted down in 1942 for metal.
Here is a brief outline of Dave’s direct male ancestors from Germany to Russia to North Dakota
Johann Peter Ternes born 1791 Elsass, Germany (now known as Alsace, France)
Son Peter Ternes born 1 Jul 1827 Krassna, Akkermann, Bessarabia, Russia
Son Michael Ternes born 25 Nov 1855 Krassna, Akkermann, Bessarabia, Russia
Son Peregrinus Ternes born Oct. 28 1880 Krasna, Akkermann, Bessarabia, Russia
Married Nov 24, 1903 in Krasna, North Dakota
Died June 25 1973 Bismark, North Dakota
Son Nicholas Ternes born 15 Sep 1926 Strasburg, North Dakota
Married July 25 1950 Bismark, North Dakota
Son Dave Ternes born Feb 4, 1958 Boise, Idaho
Here is an inquiry and the info provided to a Ternes regarding the origin of the name:
who was ternes? - after whom we have avenue des ternes (paris), metro
ternes (paris), hotel ternes (paris), village ternes (france). my mother
was a ternes - i am very intersted to find my family connections
having grown up in australia
Request for Question Clarification by leli-ga on 20 Sep 2004 03:55 PDT
I've done some preliminary research, and now believe the family name
Ternes is probably not connected with the placenames in France.
Was your mother's family definitely French?
It sounds as if you'd like us to concentrate on the family name Ternes
more than the places in France. Would that be right?
Please let us know how best we can help you with this.
Thanks - Leli
Clarification of Question by nif-ga on 20 Sep 2004 06:05 PDT
Tks for the prompt response. My mother was defintely not French. Yes I
would like you to concentrate on the family name Ternes. There are a
lot of Ternes in Melbourne Australia where my mother's family lived -
less than a handful in Paris. It is not a very widely used name. My
mother told me my grandfather - who died when I was young - told her
he remembered speaking German when young (Alsace connection?).
(Ironically, my grandfather was an Australian soldier in France in WWI
where he was gassed by the Germans).
Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 20 Sep 2004 07:11 PDT
I have found that the history of the surname "Ternes" has already been
done. I can point you to a source that can provide you with an 1800
words history of the origin of the name including (among other things)
the precise location where the name first arose and from what original
name it was derived from. The history is being offered by this source
for less than $20. It should be noted that this source does not
indicate that the name originates from neither French nor German
origin though its Australian connection could easily be explained.
Because of this I suspect that your mother's surname may originate
from this lineage rather than some direct connection to the Paris
If you'd like me to post this source as an answer I'd be happy to do so.
Clarification of Question by nif-ga on 21 Sep 2004 02:10 PDT
yes - ok - however I hope it is not one of those perfectly generalised
geneological types - how is it that ternes appears so frquently in
|Subject: Re: historical name/person
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 21 Sep 2004 08:00 PDT
Thank you for allowing me to answer your interesting question. The
HOUSE OF NAMES has researched the surname ?Ternes? and has determined
that the name originated (believe it or not) in medieval Ireland.
Apparently the name has undergone a variety of changes over the
centuries and those who still bear the name (or variations of it) are
now scattered across the globe. This Irish connection had been
indisputably established by DNA and the surname could very well have
spread to parts of Europe like France and Germany (rather than ?from?
them) and even more likely, to Australia through it?s long-standing
British and Irish relationships:
?Origin Displayed: Irish
Spelling variations include: Tiernan, Tierman, Ternan, Kiernan and others.
First found in county Cavan at Tullyhunco where the "Annals of the
Four Master" show 33 Tiernans almost all as Chiefs of Teallach
Some of the first settlers of this name or some of its variants were:
John Tierman settled in Philadelphia in 1802; John Tiernan settled in
Philadelphia in 1845; also 1850; 1867; and 1880; Patrick Tiernan
settled in Philadelphia in 1846.
(Above is a small excerpt from our 1800 word history)?
HOUSE OF NAMES
To make sure that this was not just a ?shake-and-bake? heritage that
is being sold on the internet for the purposes of establishing some
bogus coat of arms, I researched The Chiefs of Teallach Donnchadha to
see if in fact these names appear in their history?and they do indeed.
So as you can see, it appears that the name surname ?Ternes? has some
direct relationship to Irish ?Royalty?. The Chiefs of Teallach
Donnchadha were very important figures throughout three medieval
centuries from 1250-1550 in Ireland. The name is still found primarily
in the Cavan-Leitrim and can be connected to the northeastern part of
Roscommon in mediaeval times as descendents of ?Tiernan? (Tighearnan
O'Rourke who ruled the land called Teallach Donnchadha anglicized to
Tullyhunco, a barony in the present Co Cavan, Ulster). ?Tiernan? was
the grandson of Turlough Mor O'Connor, King of Ireland. The name is
also spelt in Irish MacThighearnain, which is anglicized MacKiernan.
Today the names have long since dropped the prefix ?Mac? and are
variously known as ?Ternes?, ?Tiernan?, ?Tierman?, ?Ternan?, ?Kiernan?
So, it is this period after the rule of Turlough Mor O'Connor, King of
Ireland and some time following the time of Tighearnan O'Rourke, who
ruled the land called Teallach Donnchadha anglicized to Tullyhunco a
barony in the present Co Cavan, Ulster, that these variations of the
names began to arise and presumably establish their own lineages.
The modern day ?Tiernans?, one of the many variations of the name
?Tighearnan?, the same name from whence the surname ?Ternes? is
derived, have actually established their relationship to ?Tighearnan
O'Rourke? beyond a reasonable doubt through DNA testing.
MCTIERNAN DNA TEST
Since the ?Tiernans? have proven that this is their lineage and it is
a known, recorded fact that the ?Ternes? surname is one of the many
variations of original names, it is only logical that this is origin
of the ?Ternes? surname as well. Presumably the families found today
throughout Europe and elsewhere migrated to these areas from Ireland,
but at the very least it is quite convincing that the name can be
traced to 13th century Ireland but probably no earlier anywhere else
in the world. While there may be another explanation about the origin
of the name in France or elsewhere, I strongly doubt anyone can
dispute this earliest origin that I have shown here (1250 AD) with one
from an even earlier date regardless of the geographical location it
supposedly comes from.
I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.
Tutuzdad-ga ? Google Answers Researcher
HISTORY OF 8 FAMILIES
MCTIERNAN DNA TEST
HOUSE OF NAMES
SEARCH ENGINE USED:
SEARCH TERMS USED:
Chiefs of Teallach Donnchadha
Turlough Mor O'Connor
|Subject: Re: historical name/person
From: guillermo-ga on 21 Sep 2004 07:35 PDT
Please see: http://www.mairie17.paris.fr/mairie17/jsp/Portail.jsp?id_page=47
« Au Moyen Age, l?évêque de Paris possédait au-delà du faubourg du
Roule, une ferme extérieure à son fief appelée « Villa Externa », du
mot « externa » découlèrent « Estern », puis « Ternes ». »
?In the Middle Ages, the bishop of Paris owned, beyond the suburb of
Roule, a farm outside from his feud named ?Villa Externa?, from the
word ?externa? (meaning ?outside? or ?external?) derived ?Estern?, and
Besides that, the word ?terne? is a French adjective meaning ?matte?,
?not shiny?. In French adjectives have plural forms, in this case
would be ?ternes?.
|Subject: Re: historical name/person
From: nif-ga on 22 Sep 2004 05:57 PDT
vous remercient beaucoup - c'est un excellent commentaire: précis et
concis. j'apprécie votre aide! nous aimons la France et habitent-ils
à paris quelques 3 - 6 mois chaque année alternative. de souhaits le
plus chaud de australie
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